[Iguana]

Ok, although I do not know if three of you will fulfill the requirements to attack that PERSON who wrote false things about me, I'll throw you another tournament article anyway.


Since I am saving material for a possible book, there may be some questions that do NOT have an explaination for it. I hope you'll understand that I have to save SOMETHING. Just trust me on the answers, OK.



Anyway, here we go:




YOu are playing a 22 180 player sit and go, on pokerstars. Here is the structure of this game:


180 people play, you get 1500 in chips and the rounds are 15 minutes.

It starts out at 10-20 blinds. It's around 1000 bucks for first, and 18 people are paid.



On the first round, you get pocket aces on the button, The person Unger the gun (first to act after big blind) Makes a large raise, of 10x big blind
(200)

Everyone else folds to you. Do you



(1) Just call, hoping one or both of the blinds call, and you can "trap"
the original raiser?


(2) Reraise the minimum, making it 400


(3) Reraise a little larger, making it 500 or 550 or 600


(4) Reraise all in.


We will assume that you have no notes on this player, and that you have not established any image, on way or the other.


........


Sorry, explaination will be in book just trust me, that the answer is (4)





Same event, only this time, it's down to 20 players. The blinds are 300-600 with a 50 ante. The average stack is 13,500 and you have 18000


Two more gone, and you are in the money. NOt much, but in the money.


In the second button (also known as "cutoff") you are dealt KK.


The player UTG has 20,000 in chips, and opens for 1800 in chips. They have been playing VERY tight. NOw, there is a call, and someone else goes all in for 9000. The person calling , also has around 20,000 in chips.

It's your turn, and rememberthat there still are three players who have not acted.


Do you:


(1) Call. Hey, what the heck, if I lose I still have 9000 left, and after all, kings are a big hand, right?

(2) Reraise all in. Why let one of the other 1800 callers, get in cheap.
I want to get heads up against the all in.


(3) Fold.


.....


......




Correct answer is (3) Fold. Most players make the mistake of calling here. Although kings will be the best hand, more often than not here, by the time the river is out, there is a good chance that they will NOT be.

and, that's if they are in fact the best hand. Thinking that "oh no one REALLY has the aces . . . " Is a fatal form of thinking, that has to be corrected if you want to be a winning tournament player.


Thinking that "I will still have half my stack left" is also FLAWED. First of all, even if that is true, you are now in a very weakened position. 9000, with 300-600 blinds and an ante, is certainly NOT a good position.

Yes, we have to consider the kind of power we will have, if we win the hand (and only the all in was against us) Yes, certainly his (her) 9K, plus the early action and the blinds, would have us looking mightly nice.

But, one must weigh the potential advantages, against the possible TERROR, and know the odds or each actually happening.


It's close to the bubble, The tight player, opened UNDER THE GUN. Although There are other hands that they may have, Aces, certainlyh Must ALWAYS be considered possible. Well, if you want to win tournaments, that is. When they DO have them, it's a DISASTER for you.

YOu would have had other opportunities, WHEN YOU WERE the one showing strength.

And, to bust out just out of the money, when you still were in contention for a large prize . . . . DISASTER.


Ok, and what about the smooth-caller? Again, just by calling , this shows great strength. Usually, at this stage no one gets involved agaisnt a raiser, ESPECIALLY with many players still to act behind them, unless they have something.

So, the first caller, is also suspect of possibly having aces. And, then there is the all in raiser too! AA could be lurking in their hand, don' cha, undastand?


Ok ,ok I know you're thinking "Gee, that sure seems CHICKENSHIFT" ATE just ASSUMING that someone has aces.


well, if it stopped at someone having aces, I probably would take the chance, and call.


But, it NO stop their, Dear fans, and even you SILLY detractors that are reading this 'cause it's GRRRRREAT.


Remember, this is a seven card game. So, Mr. or Ms. all in, maybe just has AK . . . and hits.

Or, the first raiser, now attracted to the size of the pot, goes with their queens, NOw, betwwen the two of them, it's about 50-50 that you lose.

And, if Mr QQ hits, then you lose ALL your chips.


So, between:

(1) the chance that one of the three has Aces

(2) The chance that they don't, but beat you anyway.

(3) The fact that if you don't call, you will almost certainly get in the money, with other opportunities to build up.

(4) The fact that if one of the other two players plays, and hits something, or has aces (and you are not lucky enough to suck out) AND, you lose all your chips, when this happens.


Makes this a clear fold. Folding hands like this, in spots like this, is HARD. But, it is one skill you must master, if you expect to become a winning tournament player.


Note, had you had, say 30,000, and thus would not be OUT, if one of the 20K stacks, takes you out, this would then become a re raise.


No sense letting in something like JJ or 10 10.


Remember, being in a positon where no one can take you out in one play, is VERY powerful.

This changes everything.






Same situation, only this time, you have only 9500.




(1) Call


(2) Go all in for the extra 500


(3) Fold





Correct answer is (1) CAll.



Now that you really don't have a powerful stack, we can take more chances, as the expectation is that we are not going to get more than a minimal prize anyway.


So, we will take a risk to double or even triple up, with our kings. Since there are this many players, there is a good chance that several aces are out, and thus increases our chances of the kings standing up. We do not raise the last 500, as in this case, with the need to build up more important than the need to "hang on" We don't want to show the extra strength.

In this spot, we WILL be desirous of having one (but hopefullyh not TWO) or the 1800 callers to overcall, and thus triple us up if we win.


WHEN OUR STACK IS SUCH, THAT THE PROBILILITY IS THAT WE WILL WIN A SMALL PRIZE AT BEST , we take risks.


WHEN OUR STACK IS SUCH, THAT THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE TO WIN A MEDIUM-TO LARGE PRIZE, we take fewer risks.



To my fans: I appreciate yhour loyalty, and that' s why ATE is giving you this BEST-IN-THE-WORLD advice. Hopefully, you will come to know that ATE MEANS it, when I say I 'm one of the top authorities in the world in tournaments. (as well as all my olther claims)


To my silly detractors: I'm glad you don't think I know what I"m talking about, I'd hate for YOU to actually learn something from me, for FREE!

Go find someone else to read!



A
Tournament teacher
Extrodainaire

[Jiganti]

Excellent advice on the KK hand. It's interesting how the decision would be different if your KK is a 100% favorite against a worse hand, and a 100% dog against AA (basically meaning that the hand would be played without a board). Since whatever your KK is up against still has a chance, we can fold here.

However, what of the possibility that we run into aces and end up beating them? Doesn't this cancel out the fact that our kings could lose to a worse hand?

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

Man, this guy is smart! I am really going to have to think HARD to come up with good enough stuff, to impress him.


Anyway, first off, this is pretty much a "reading" section. I don't think that people come here, so you may find yourself short of "discussion" partners. (Not that there's anyone WRONG, with asking questions here)



Well, NO! it doe'nst exactly "cancel each other out" Reason being, that since you will be up against hands OTHER than AA, much more often than the combination of bing against them AND beating them, that this becomes a more significant thing to think about.



A' Demain,


Adam, the guy that created the character, of "Adam the Expert' but really is just a fat slob mental patient, who happens to be a genius of poker.
_________________
Adam

[sdouble]

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

Look ----! Don't you have anything better to do, than ATTEMPT to misquote me!


The quote SAYS Happens to BE a genius of poker, NOT happens to think he is


What kind of -------- attempts to alter a quote when the REAL quote is right above it!


So, you joined this site, just to attempt to besmudge me, eh!


Funny, before reading this I was about to start a new section, just for people like you.


"Rag on ATE" BUT, unlike other members anyone using this section MUST sign up and play, and thus produce revenue for the site.

Our rakeback percentage is most competitive, so what the hell.

BUT

The rules are that you can complain, state your opnion, BUT you CANNOT make up any CLUCKING lies, alter what I say ect.


I'll give you ONE more chance to gripe about ATE properly, before removing your quote-altering BUTT off this site.





(Ed note: after reading the "wow, good" comment aabout my big birthday win, I am going to see if perhaps this person isn't just trying to be sarcastic, and may have decent intentions. As such, I have edited out certain names that I may have called this individula, and will resever judgement.

If you are here to be a good, participating member, and not to pick on me, fine. If not, be warned I have NO tolerance for that stuff, here. I had to put up with it before I be got my own site, but not anymore.
UNLESS, you keep it to the proper section, and also sign up and produce rakeback for the site, and of c ourse YOU) This is the price to gripe about ATE on this site.
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Adam

[themerv]

i don't agree with question 2 about the kk hand. i will always move all in here unless theres 3 allins before me. If the other player has aces then so be it, but he could be raisn with ak qq jj.

u say learning to fold here is great skill, i don't agree. I believe that if you fold here then u are passin up a great chance to win the pot and go on to win the tournament. just cause he raised utg, does not mean he has AA. he could be raisin with ak, qq or jj and i think that u will see these hands here more often than u see AA so pushin here, IMO, would be the right move.

Its the same with the player who went allin, i think you would see ak or a pocket lower than kk here more often than ud see AA , which in the long run would justify calling.

The smooth caller could be playin a low pocket piar and hopin to catch a set to bust utg. If he had AA, KK then he would have surely reraised at this stage in the tournament.

i dont care if its close to the bubble, i play to win the tournament, not just to make the money
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this aint a scene, its a god damn arms raid

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

Welcome to the site.


The first thing I want you to learn, is that this section is here for people to read only.

I have enough questions to answer, without having to go back to my classic articles, and REcorrect people who's views are (while welcome)

(1) WRONGAMUNDO
(2) WRONGARUSKY
(3) WRONGIQUE

or, just plain WRONG.



I am not going to spend an hour, going over what I have already explained in the article. The object of a tournament, ESPECIALLY IN THE NEW ERA, WHERE FIRST IS NOT NEARLY AS MUCH AS IT USED TO BE. . .
Is to win the highest place that you can, without taking FOOLISH chances.

My friend, the OVERemphasis on "winning" is usually associated with Youth, and OVERAGGRESSION. If you play WELL (like NOT risking a big stack with rag hands, like KK before the flop with TWO showing great strength. First places will come. But, you CANNOT force them.


The object in the skillful play of tournaments, is to try to "work" your chips, and build them SENSEABLY.


I have won events, when down to a VERY VERY few chips, and have seen friends do the same.

BUt, uh DUDE, what part of "when you expend your last chip, they don't let you play anymore" didn't you understand?



Frankly, you are now reminding me of the Japanese troops, during WWII

They used tactics and weapons that belonged to ANOTHER ERA.


bEFORE machine guns, BANZI charges (very similar to what you want to do with YOUR kings) actually worked.

BEFORE first places were freakin' 18.5% or maybe 20-30 percent, the reward for getting first was so great (used to be like FREAKIN SIXTY PERCENT) that taking more chances made a hellofa lot more sense.

(uh, also the lessor places didn't play nearly AS much, so the reward for just hangin' 'round, and settling for a secondary place was NOT so great)


There IS time, wait for a better spot. If the initial raiser, or the first caller could NOT match your stack, and only had about the same as the all in (9,000) I would suggest going for it.


Again, you seem to suffer from the "they can't ACTUALLY have aces, can they?" sickness, that I have recently discussed.


IF THIS was very early in the tournament, before much time has been invested, AND when you also encounter many more players who would actually raise, MAYBE then I would do it.


Even if one person had AK, and another QQ, it's still about 50-50 that you are OUT of the tournament.


I think you're main flaw here, is presupposing that this will be the ONLY, or even the BEST spot to build up chips.




or, to sum it up in a few words


'uh DUDE, KK is NOT, repeat NOT AA"

and, it's NOT even close.


against any ace, you be only 2.33 to one or LESS

and that is NOT enough, to risk being out of the event, when there is still time left to build chips, AND have others bust out.



Next time , please make a post in the appropriate secion related to the topic.



and thanks for posting
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Adam

[Kevorka]

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

This is a missquote. Yes, I am a fat slob, and yes I am a mental patienct.

But, I do'nt THINK I am an expert in poker, I KNOW that I am THE expert in poker.



Watch yourself, or you will simply be removed
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Adam

[THERESONATOR]

I actually also disagree about folding Kings and think that people who want to win the most money playing tournaments should solely focus on winning them and not simply placing in the money, especially if they play almost exclusively tournaments, in so far as "the long run" that is not expressed by playing one, two or five of the same tournament but rather hundreds and more, would have that player run into similar and at some points exactly similar situations and see them win the all in showdown more often than not and thus ladder up higher and quicker and have a higher chance of winning the tournament than had they passed the Kings, more often than not. Maybe this is something we can talk about in our lessons though; perhaps I play too much like I'm in a cash game, because I have a complete disregard for the concept of tournament life!

Agree on the first one, I would definately move in with the Aces, because he made such a large opening raise and also a reraise would pot commit us anyway so I might as well get it all in before the flop, which has the added bonus of him not being able to fold after the flop (say if he had QQ and it came monotone AK4 which he didnt have the suit of) because its his whole stack in with ours.
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its only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything