[nickname]

Hi,

Don't really know where to post this, but since the trackers are most used in NL Holdem, i will post it here.

Disclaimer: english isn't my first language so this post is likely to have some mistakes in it.
disclaimer 2: I'm not stating anything in this post as a fact, i just give my thoughts.

I was wondering a couple of weeks ago about the meaning of stats given by programs as pokertracker and holdem manager.
I can see that they make poker (especially NLHE) a bit easier, because you can identify fish very quickly.
As for regulars you can see if they usually are NIT, tight-aggressive player or LAG but they don't give any information about the game you're in now,
(as far as NITs go that's enough, since NIT's only play the nuts, second nuts and third nuts and you just fold when they raise and you have a marginal hand)
But you don't know if a tight-aggressive player/LAG has been losing today and is on tilt/semi-tilt. I don't say i will notice that just from playing a few hands with him, but I think i that if you play without stats and not too many tables, you will notice these things earlier.

Another more important reason that i don't use stats is that i think most of the stats don't have enough details. For example, a 3bet% is nice to see if villain isn't hugely out of line, but to get a good read you'll have to know more. Like who is he 3betting? only weaker players/fish with marginal hands and regulars with good hands?
Is he squeezing light when UTG or UTG+1 opens and a MP fish calls? What hands is he 3betting? low pocket pairs, suited connectors and premiums or premiums and hands like KJ/JT/QT?
i think this should make a huge difference for your calling range. Lets say you're up against an LAG regular who 3bets a lot. You have a note that he doesn't give up in pots where he's the 3bettor.
if he's 3betting hands like 44/55/67s/etc you can flatcall w/ high cards and let him bluff off his stack if you get a piece of the board.

And the last reason for me not to use stats is that i don't pick up on changes in villains playing style. For example, about a year ago i went from playing 16/14 to 24/21 or so, but i noticed that opponents with
whom i played a lot of hands didn't pick up on this for about 2 months even while going from 16/14 to 24/21 is a huge difference. So you may never notice some slight changes in villains playing style, but they do matter.

Offcourse i'm aware of the fact that tracking software is a must when playing 9+ tables, but i believe if you're just playing 2-6 tables, getting reads, recognize betting patterns and notice slight changes in villains gameplay etc. can gain you a lot of extra money compared to the auto-decisions you make based on stats.

Is there any logic in my thoughts or is this complete bullshit?

Jeffrey

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

Well, this certainly IS a breath of fresh air. Ooops, that's an American expression, gotta think Global


How SICK I am of reading on o ther sites, where the poster starts off with

the player was "7/45" bla bla bla, as If ADAM is supposed to know what that means.

Currently, this "tool" is as useful as a WWI biplane was. FINE agaisnst the opposition of the day, but take it foward 25 years, and pit it agbainst an ME--109

and you're dead.


The fact is, that the things that these things tell you, are ONLY of minor use, and then

ONLY IF YOU ALSO TAKE
THE PROPER PLAYER NOTES, AND ALSO KNOW HOW TO APPLY SAID INFORMATION, AND MAKE THE PROPER DECISIONS



By the way, HOW did you hear of this site?


I'm gonna make a bold statement, and I hope the owners of pokertracker don't send someone to kill me


"NOT ONLY IS THIS A MOSTLY USELESS PRODUCT, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY TO THE DIS, REPEAT DISADVANTAGE OF THE PERSON USING IT, BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM STOP TAKING PLAYER NOTES, AND ALSO MAKES THEM THINK THAT THEY ARE GETTING USEFUL INFORMATION, AND THAT THE POSSESSION OF SAID USEFUL INFORMATION, BY ITSELF, IS GOING TO MAKE THEM A WINNER."
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Adam

[nickname]

I'm not that into the american expressions, but i got this one

indeed, programs like poker tracker only tell you minor things.

I can see that they come in handy when playing a tournament, where you only play a couple of 100 hands. you are almost never long enough on a table to take accurate notes so it is an (minor) advantage to have a global idea of your opponents.

But even then, the stats given by poker tracker are inaccurate over just a few hands, so you still have to be carefull to use them.

and i agree on the fact that people stop taking notes because they think that they have all the information they need. i think taking notes is absolutely necessary, you can't get any relevant information just out of stats.

the only good use of pokertracker is look back at your session afterwards and go over your play and see where you make mistakes and see where you didn't made the right play at the right time. go over board textures, see what boards are good to bluff on, see what boards are bad for bluffing. or more detailed, do you know the feeling "oh man, thats the worst card in the deck" look in poker tracker for that hands and situations. your opponent plays those hands too. knowing when he get's a "oh man, thats the worst card in the deck"-feeling is a huge advantage.

I don't know exactly how i came to this site, but i believe i saw one of your articles somewhere and i googled "adamtheexpert". can't remember where i saw your article, but i thought it was very interesting to read and decided i wanted to read more.

Jeffrey

[roger41]

I use pokertracker everytime I play and I agree in some aspects with what has been already posted. In my opinion it is an amazing tool, even if you don't utilize poker hud while you play. The sheer ability to log every hand you play for review is well worth it.

However, aside from that, if you are playing multiple tables, it allows you to make quick decisions in standard spots. In addition, even with notes, the statistics can assist in defining a range for the opponents you play. However, NEVER EVER use it as a crutch. It shouldn't make poker easier. Nothing should ever make poker easier. Any tool you use should only help to enhance your play.

In short, if you don't have it and you're serious about playing NLHE, it's well worth it for the amount it costs.
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When the cards go dead, And the beats mess with my head.
When the coolers won’t stop, And every flopped straight is a chop
It’s the memory of CAT, Aiding me through all of that

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

Well, I certainly respect Roger's opnion.ow

As long as a person don'st think this is going to solve ALL their problems in ho.w to play, It can be a good tool


Just don't make it your ONLY tool.



Adam
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Adam